Hey all - we are after a small size (preferably small/max efficiency) car to travel around 50-60km/s per day. Obviously would love to travel 300kms+ but right now would be happy with run around car for my partner to go to work and back.
Looking on TM, cheapest EVs seem to be Leaf with around 60% battery around 3.5-4.5k
PHEV I can't find any under 5k!!
UPDATE: Potentially can increase budget to 10k if the ROI is worth it!
Oh okay - she currently has a toyota hatchback that gives around 14km/L economy and costing around $2400/year in fuel. Completely forgot about the road tax rules.
Oh okay - she currently has a toyota hatchback that gives around 14km/L economy and costing around $2400/year in fuel. Completely forgot about the road tax rules.
Sounds quite low, but I'm no expert!
Is it fairly old? My daughter has a small Toyota Yaris (? not sure about the model name ?) that is a pure petrol (no plug-in connection at all) and I'm sure it is rated something in the low fours (L per 100km).
4.2L/100km would be about 24 km/L.
Its 2010 from memory but will check. I've never had that much economy in a petrol car. Best I've got her car was around 17km/L average on a trip.
That does seem too optimistic.
I've own a Yaris, albeit 2007 one and the fuel economy is around 13-14km/L on city driving.
<5L/100km is generally hybrid territory, not full petrol. That being said, there are probably smaller petrol car that can do that fuel economy.
That does seem too optimistic.
I've own a Yaris, albeit 2007 one and the fuel economy is around 13-14km/L on city driving.
<5L/100km is generally hybrid territory, not full petrol. That being said, there are probably smaller petrol car that can do that fuel economy.
I checked with her, and you are correct - it is a hybrid, but the only 'fuel' is petrol (you can't plug it in).
@Alan6984: Oh wow, so with a hybrid, you still get 24km/L economy!?? What car is it? What other (affordable-ish) hybrid other than a Prius can achieve that sort of economy?
Oh wow, so with a hybrid, you still get 24km/L economy!?? What car is it? What other (affordable-ish) hybrid other than a Prius can achieve that sort of economy?
It's a Toyota Yaris - not exactly sure what year, but probably about 2020 or so.
Always possible the Yaris and Prius are the same thing? Sometimes the same car has different names in NZ and, say, Japan.
Always possible the Yaris and Prius are the same thing? Sometimes the same car has different names in NZ and, say, Japan.
No. Yaris & Prius are different.
Okay - I am more of an "It's a red car" kind of guy.
I know it's not a PHEV, but BYD's released a new car called the Qin EV. It's release price in the US is $15k USD so if and when they release it in NZ, it'll be a great entry
Will be way out of budget :( at least for now.
few questions for you:
- What's your budget for this?
- Are you able to charge at home or are you relying on public charger?
- Is this going to be your only car or second car for the 50-60km daily?
Depending on your answers to those people could probably guide you to the right direction.
On Leaf, they're probably the ones to get to be honest with your usage, but it depends on your charging availability. It's best if you can charge daily at home at night using off peak lower power cost; even with RUC, it'll be an equivalent of a petrol of $1.60/ltr based on rough calculation, and depends on the power cost too.
If you have to rely on the public charger, the calculation will change entirely, and would be better off getting small efficient petrol car.
I have a 75% Leaf myself and reliably can do around 100km in summer and 85km in winter. Was intended to be the second car for our household, ended up getting driven more than the "main" petrol car, mainly due to the petrol cost atm. Happy to answer any questions
$3500-$4500 2011-2013 Leafs on marketplace - thoughts on these?
without seeing the listing, hard to say as the pricing depends on the condition of the battery for Leaf.
Generally, it's best to go for the 2014+ Leaf as earlier Leafs (Leaves?) have issues on the heater and the battery composition.
2014+ leaf has different battery composition (or "Lizard Pack" for the more technical term).
I would say get the most SOH% as your budget can. Mileage doesn't matter too much as for EV, apart from maybe the mechanical bit (think tyres, CV joint, brake pads).
If you're able to get this for the price you want, probably the best: https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/leaf/listing/…
With worsening traffic on the roads, I wouldn't want to drive a low range Leaf. Anxiety levels will be thru the roof.
Agree, and thats why the daily distance will determine whic leaf to get.
I woukd derate the need heavily, like you said for peace of mind. For 50-60km daily driving, I would consider a Leaf that can do 80km at least
This is a misconception. When your leaf isn't moving, unlike an ICE car you simply don't use any power, or very little. Even if you are crawling or in stop/go situation as long as you keep it smooth you will use very very little power. Nothing to worry about. High speeds and motorway driving are the killers for range with an EV. Especially if it's uphill. But as long as you have a downhill as well you get regen braking to offset that.
@kiwical: That's true. I was thinking stuck in a Leaf for 1-2 hrs in 30 degrees heat with air conditioning on full blast.
The Leafs I looked at had battery around 55 to 65% (for $3.5k - 4.5k)
Good to know odometer mileage isn't too much of a concern and all about the battery health %.
Bit of a suggestion. Don't just look at the sticker price. Check what extra it would require as well. Especially servicing/maintenance cost and insurance(Very high lately) so add all that as your yearly cost to see which comes out better for you.
Bit of a suggestion. Don't just look at the sticker price. Check what extra it would require as well. Especially servicing/maintenance cost and insurance(Very high lately) so add all that as your yearly cost to see which comes out better for you.
Totally agree with that. Our insurance went up about 13% upon renewal (Feb 2023 to Feb 2024) even after shopping around, with no claims or anything.
To be honest, that's a ICE car budget. Keep your current car.
For that price range I won't recommend an EV. Especially if that's your first EV. You won't get much range and anxiety of running out of juice is not worth it. Rather look for efficient petrol or hybrid car. Don't go for phev due to RUC. Not worth the extra cost and I doubt you will get any in that budget.
How about for 40-45km/day?
Also saw this article while searching for Leaf which says they lack thermal management hence much faster battery deterioration than other EVs.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/money/25-05-2021/the-one-big-proble…
The thermal management is more for the fast charging (public charging) if you're doing it 2+ times a day (e.g. road trip). If you're charging using the 'granny charger' (AC mains charger that comes with the car), the degradation is much lower. Expect 2-3% annual degradation for Leaf but sometimes you get lucky.
Mine was 75.5% when I bought it in 2022. Now mine is still 74.7% SOH after 14000km mileage. So far only done 2 fast charging and doesn't seem the degrade a lot faster.
How about for 40-45km/day?
This would suit 7-8 bar Leaf (taking into account the extra margin for 'peace of mind'). The ones that you're looking for might be fine for summer, but winter the range reduces. If you're able to charge at work, then you could theoretically get the lower bar Leaf for cheaper since you can charge at work but might be a hassle and can only suit your usage for 1-2 years.
As you will be paying road user charges soon on EVs plus still ahve to pay for electricity, I found that buying new, it wasn't worth buying an EV. Partly because we ave very high per unit electricity charges with no low night rates, and the money saved with buying a hybrid instead would pay for petrol for years. Maybe the government will bring in carbon taxes on petrol, no one knows what they will get up to.
Not related to EV, but if you don't have a low night rate, and high per unit rate don't you think you are paying more for the electricity in general ?
Lots' of calculations people have done on reddit and as per my calculations as well, can say that if you are using peak/off-peak charging rates at home with RUC, EV is still the cheaper option. Yes, if you have to rely on public charging cost then it will be expensive than hybrid (non-phev). Not if you are using public charging on holiday trips.
Edit: What is stopping you to change your electricity plan to have low/high rate depending on time or something?
Maybe the government will bring in carbon taxes on petrol, no one knows what they will get up to.
Petrol (and diesel) have been part of the ETS for nearly fifteen years I believe.
I know many people don't want to accept it, but reducing your petrol usage, doesn't actually reduce the overall emissions of NZ, it just reduces the price of emitting a kg of carbon (on the margin) that someone else will then emit.
I suspect that currently, there are only two ways in NZ to reduce overall emissions:
1) Reduce emissions from something that is not currently part of the ETS (such as parts of agriculture); or
2) Reduce the overall cap on the ETS scheme (faster than it would otherwise be reduced).
You can, of course, increase absorption as well, as long as whatever you do is not already part of the ETS, in which case that will already be taken up.
Alan.
Update- if we bump up the budget to 10k, would you still recommend an EV/Phev?
I did a calculate cost test between a Leaf 30 with RUC added and petrol ICE 7.5l/100 and got the below
(RUC) $832
Total ICE $2,685 EV - $1,509
So about 1k savings per year.
Current car might get 2-2.5k if we sell so additional 7.5k to be spent on the EV.
Does that mean it’ll take 7 years to get 7k ROI?
Does that mean it’ll take 7 years to get 7k ROI?
I will assume your calculations are correct - not saying they aren't, but just making that assumption.
You have to borrow the $7k from somewhere, either from yourself (savings) or someone else. If you borrow from yourself, you are paying interest (whatever rate of return you would otherwise be getting on your savings, including an amount to cover the 'peace of mind' / 'risk reduction' of having those savings), or if from someone else, then whatever interest rate you pay them.
Pick a realistic rate, and put it into a loan calculator to see how long the $7,000 loan will last, paying off say, $100 pm or whatever amount comes out of your calculations above.
That's an indication of the payback period to either replenish your savings to what they would otherwise have been, or to pay off the loan you would take out.
We have a mortgage so the 7k extra will be topped up
Who is your mortgage with, keep in mind if you are borrowing to buy a green car the likes of ANZ and Westpac offer low interest borrowing, I think Westpac is 0% and ANZ is 1% both for three year terms. Worth considering as you can borrow the full $10k then put the $2.5k you sell your car for either in to savings or pay off some mortgage to earn/save more money. Crazy that when we ran the numbers if we swapped out our leaf for an identical model we'd be quite up on the deal just by borrowing at the lower rate and putting the extra in to the offset mortgage.
@Everettpsycho: Thanks mate I checked that with my broker but because we don’t have enough equity required, not eligible for this one. But could get around 6.89%
At that budget yes. I know on cheapies we are bound to look at the cheapest price but do consider environmental impact and how better EV drive is.
Secondly calculations might be right if you have considered yearly maintenance costs, have you? Ice car(hybrid -phev included) would need regular servicing while EV might not. If not I would add around $500/yr roughly to that cost.
Also, as mentioned above insurance cost.
Revised calculation with 40kms/day and taken into account the below factors(bold is ICE current car)
Annual Cost Comparison
Based on 14,600 km of travel per year.
The Nissan Leaf 30 kWh, charged at 25 cents/kWh, is cheaper to run than a combustion car using 7.5L / 100 km.
Current Car Nissan Leaf 30 kWh
Fuel $2,847
Electricity (home) $518
Maintenance & Service $733 $384
Road User Charges (RUC) $1,110
Total $3,580 $2,012
As ace was saying, you could try getting quote on the insurance for the leaf. You may find the insurance for the leaf is more expensive.
Foe the calculation, you may get better power as 25c/kWh is considered high, especially if you're charging overnight. But yeah it's roughly the cost. Note that you may drive more as a side effect as it's fun and cheap to run haha
Cheapest PHEV on trade me is a Prius PHEV at $12,430. These had short electric ranges from new (16 -24km rated), but basically run like a non plug in prius once that is spent (~4L/100km).
Cheapest PHEV on Facebook marketplace is an outlander PHEV at $9900. These had about 40km electric range when new, but they have a reputation for fast battery degradation (seems to hit some examples harder than others). would be supprised if a car in your price range has more than 20km of real world range. These are pretty thirsty in hybrid mode (8 - 9 L/100km). Seen as you want a small car, can probiably knock this on the head now.
Unless you can charge multiple times a day, doing 50 - 60km a day will see you running in excess of 60% of the time in hybrid mode.
Quick running costs calc on Prius PHEV:
(16kWh/100km x $0.17/kWh)0.4 + (4L/100km * $3/L)0.6 +$5.3 in RUC = $13.59/100km in fuel + power + RUC
For Regular Prius:
4L/100km * $3/L = $12/100km.
Essentially the RUC rate for PHEV's vs what a regular Prius pays in road tax that it kills the economics unless you can drive almost entirely on very cheap power.
So in that light, just get the smaller toyota hybrid of choice(they really are the best option at this price point).
Personally I like the 3rd gen prius as it has a little more power than the smaller ones while retaining similar economy. But given you want small, aqua/Prius C, fielder hybrid & axio hybrid are all worth a look.
If you get an aqua make sure it has push button start, as the turn key ones don't have an immobilizer and hence are popular with thieves.
One PHEV to look out for is the Holden volt / Vauxhall Ampera. 61km rated range when new, and very well managed battery pack compared to the outlander. Sadly they are very rare, and only come up for sale a few times a year. Was around $20k worth the last I saw, but the introduction of PHEV's having to pay both RUC and fuel tax is going to hurt their values. (current legislation has them paying RUC's after 31 March, but being able to claim back fuel tax.
[closing note], just took a look and BMW i3 REX's are approaching your price range. The below 2016 is asking $13k.
I had one of these for a while, and they are amazing car's. 125kW, RWD, full carbon fiber body etc. A 60Ah would have about 100 - 120km electric range, so enough to do your daily running all electric, while having the safety net of a petrol fed motorcycle engine under the boot floor.
If you could stretch your budget to get one of these it would be a great option. Next leavel car comparing to aqua's and leaf's.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/bmw/i3/listing/45770…
On leaf's, their value has just dropped off a cliff. We have a 2014 that we have owned for a few years and paid $12,500 for. Comparable cars now have an asking price of about $6k.
If you go this route get a 2014+ 24kWh for best reliability, get 70%+ State of health and avoid the base S trim (no heat pump, no b mode).
A heap of car for the money, as an aqua of the same year goes for more than double the price. But of course it is pretty much a dedicated city car. with 70% battery health expect about 90km real world range. For open road trips, after the first charge you want to run in about the 85% - 10% range, so after your first fast charger, you are down to about 65km hops. Pritty much a max of two fast charges in a sequence to avoid the pack getting too hot, so your radius is pretty small.
Did do a 300km round trip in ours a couple of weekends back, staying overnight (our other car had a check engine light turn on two days prior). but that is about the max, and you are screwed (well need to find a power outlet and charge for 6-8 hours) if a fast charger faults as you don't have the range for a contingency plan.
Thanks heaps for the detailed answer! Wife doesn't like Prius as last time she had a similar car, people randomly jumps in front of the car waving her down thinking it is their Uber.
Would love to go BMW but after owning an older BMW which cost us a ton (even with mechanical warranty), family is a bit skeptical about euros.
From what I understand, best option would be a Toyota hybrid hatchback (likes of Aqua etc)
Thoughts on Honda hybrid Fit/Jazz? Or Nissan Note e-power?
You might want to check what is happening with PHEVs and RUCs - someone who owns one told me recently that they pay tax in petrol, and also RUCs, so getting a double whammy.
Maybe that has been resolved in some way by now, but worth checking in your calculations at least.